In April 2021 the legislature of the U.S. State of Arkansas introduced a bill that prohibited doctors from providing gender-transition treatments to people under 18 years old. The bill would make it a felony for doctors to administer puberty blockers, hormones and gender-reaffirming surgery to anyone under the age of 18. Opponents of the bill argue that it is an assault on transgender rights and that transition treatments are a private matter that should be decided between parents, their children and doctors. Supporters of the bill argue that children are too young to make the decision to receive gender transition treatment and only adults over the age of 18 should be allowed to do so.
@ISIDEWITH3yrs3Y
No
@9GK28G3CA Common Sense 6mos6MO
Top Agreement
The...LGBTQ(a lot of plusses apparently) litreally all suffer from gender dysphoria. That is a mental disorder. Why promote an disorder?
@9GLFNC66mos6MO
You shouldn't change you body until you are of age because the body has not fully developed so you should wait until then if you still have the same beliefs then go ahead by all means
@9GKYYW26mos6MO
Only transgender people have gender dysphoria. All modern science concurs that the mental disorder is only able to be treated by transitioning.
@Ars-Gratia-Artis3mos3MO
“All modern science concurs that the mental disorder is only able to be treated by transitioning.”
Actually, modern science does not support this. While yes, some places have found findings that all transgender people have gender dysphoria (I wonder why this correlation exists, /sarcasm) this is not an effective cure. Many people have expressed continued problems after their transitions. While some are happy and make it past, some are not. I agree that it is a mental disorder. However, many people who tried a therapeutic route also expressed positive results. It is not factual to state that all modern science concurs, it actually does not, nor that the only treatment is transitioning. In… Read more
@9GN97F4 6mos6MO
That statement is worded incorrectly, or rather purposefully, in order to force a homophobic viewpoint. Your tone is negative and sarcastic in hopes of swaying the contestant to your personal bias against members of the LGBTQ+ community. This leads me to believe you're not entirely convinced in the cause nor willing to learn. Also, the unnecessary "..." indicates your question doesn't stem from innocence, but rather a mocking rhetoric towards those of an opposite viewpoint. As for the complaint on the many "plusses", there's only one collective plus represen… Read more
@Ars-Gratia-Artis3mos3MO
As much of a Grammar Nazi as I am (hail Oxford) this partially constitutes an ad hominem attack.
Your logical fallacy is ad hominemhttps://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
That is not a valid argumentative tactic. Try again.
@9HZ8L7C 3mos3MO
If we're just going to correct spelling and grammar, there's some stuff I would like to mention:
And as for the argument itself, if these individuals that are struggling because of the "issue of poor mental health,"the… Read more
@Ars-Gratia-Artis3mos3MO
Actually, they do not. The LGB group and the TQ+ are actually having a major schism right now. The concept of LGB relies entirely on a gender binary existing. That is, what is "gay" if any of the two biological sexes are both considered men? The erasure is unintentional, certainly, but the two groups don't really have much to do with each other. And honestly, yes, the pluses are out of hand at this point. The disorder is promoted because the population is loud, and will try to silence dissenters. Like Jordan B. Peterson. I don't think they're wrong on some things, and… Read more
@9G4ZNF26mos6MO
All people, including young people, have the right to bodily autonomy and self-expression. No one else has the right to tell them how they must perform gender or what they can do to their own bodies.
@9HZ8L7C 3mos3MO
Should a ten year old kid ask for a lobotomy because he thinks his ADHD is getting out of hand?
@Ars-Gratia-Artis3mos3MO
If only solving my ADHD is that easy.
It literally is none of our business. It is a private and personal medical decision process between the patient and their medical provider.
@9GJJHP96mos6MO
Kids should not undergo gender reassignment surgery due to concerns about their ability to make informed decisions and the need for careful evaluation and support.
@ISIDEWITH3yrs3Y
No, children should not be allowed to make irreversible life decisions
@TheRacingWolf 7mos7MO
Top Disagreement
The suicide rates of children who receive gender-affirming care are astronomically lower than those who don't. Additionally, the divorce rate and the amount of people who work in a field unrelated to their college major are much higher than the rate of people who regret transgender surgery. While the former two are encouraged, the latter is looked down upon.
@98HV8R7 7mos7MO
The concept of gender-affirming care is too recent to record accurate data regarding its effects. Teenagers who receive gender-affirming care will not experience the full scope of the decision until they reach an age of maturity, apply for jobs, date, begin careers. Only then will the concept of "regret," or not, be accurately recorded. Children who are unable to consent to sexual relations, vote, pay taxes, or be approved for a loan should not be subject to gender-affirming care, particularly if the procedure creates permanent physical changes.
@9HZ8L7C 3mos3MO
The most in-detail study on this says otherwise. The conclusion says:
"Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."
The suicide rates from that same study are also quite shocking. People who have undergone gender-reassignment… Read more
@9FPLGCR7mos7MO
I agree with this very much. As a transgender citizen, gender-affirming care has ended my depression, which was a result of biochemical issues due to my brain being wired to receive testosterone. I am functionally a male, and without gender-affirming care I would likely have killed myself by now.
@Ars-Gratia-Artis3mos3MO
Out of curiosity, and please don't attack me, would therapy possibly have created a similar outcome?
@9JTVXMF2mos2MO
The vast majority of Trans folks that have pursued gender-affirming care have undergone years of therapy to get there. Your medical team (including your therapist) has to clear you for gender-affirming care. Some folks can combat their gender dysphoria and related depression with a combination of affirming therapy and self-expression, but this is uncommon.
Just try to keep in mind that everybody's different, A way is not THE way, and that gender-affirming care saves lives.
@9G7ZH5B6mos6MO
Transgenderism is wrong, and with an undeveloped mind you must be borderline retarded to suggest that anyone should give a child permission to get an irreversible procedure with lifelong negative effects
@9GB5SGP 6mos6MO
If a child is expressing that they are not comfortable in their own body, you should be paying attention to that. Not how you may feel about what they are saying. Put your child's needs before your beliefs. They may be young or old, but they know how they feel. It is THEIR bodies. You shouldn't be using "restarted" as a reference to this topic, or anything really. That's just as wrong as how you feel about this topic.
@9G8GB966mos6MO
Literally nobody is suggesting surgery on children. Straw man arguments do nothing productive when it comes to discussing gender affirmation for children.
@9G8K4KD6mos6MO
The “procedures” in question are very reversible. There are very very few people advocating for surgery for minors under 16 years of age. Trans affirming healthcare involves hormone blockers, which simply delay the process of puberty, which is an irreversible process.
@PBJoe6mos6MO
This issue is a personal medical issue that should be between a patient and their doctors/therapists.
@9FBGL677mos7MO
Children have all types of wild thoughts and ideas. Adults have the responsibility to guide them through those
@9HGW5LH5mos5MO
The WPATH suggested requirements to recieve trans related care are high enough, as per the Standards of Care.
The WPATH suggested requirements needed for minors to recieve trans related care are high enough to eliminate those that are just too imaginitive.
The following recommendations are made regarding the requirements for gender-affirming medical and surgical treatment (All of them must be met): 6.12- We recommend health care professionals assessing transgender and gender diverse adolescents only recommend gender-affirming medical or surgical treatments requested by the patient when: 6.12.a- the adolescent meets the diagnostic criteria of gender incongruence as per the ICd-11 in situations where… Read more
Medical care is a private and personal decision making process between the medical provider and the individual. Government directive and interference is unnecessary and unconstitutional. This transcends far beyond the concept of gender transition, which still remains a private and personal decision making process that is (and should be) protected under the constitution.
@ISIDEWITH3yrs3Y
Yes
@9GL88Q4Independent6mos6MO
We do not allow children to drink, smoke, or even vote. The human brain is not fully developed until age 25. Children can not make this decision and must wait until they are adults.
@9GLQNTLProgressive6mos6MO
Children under 18 are allowed to get any medical procedures if their parents consent. To ban medical procedures related to gender transitioning under 18 you would have to prove how those specific treatments cause harm which we don’t have any objective proof of.
@9HZ8L7C 3mos3MO
But greenlighting that surgery, whatever it is, is done by making a honest and informed decision. Doctors are scaring parents by saying things like "Would you rather have a living son, or a dead daughter?" This scares parents into making this decision, rather than looking at the other options available.
And as for the proof of it being harmful, the most in depth, long term study we have shows that people who get these gender affirming procedures done are 27 times more likely to commit suicide. But the doctors don't care, or even don't know about that data. They just take the paycheck. And the parents are left scared and guilty.
@9GMFQ8LRepublican6mos6MO
Kids shouldn't even be worried about transitioning, they are too young to know whats best for them. Kids also make stupid mistakes and if they transition then they will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.
@9GNKJ5W6mos6MO
Children are becoming suicidal because they cannot be who they want to be, being trans isn't hurting anyone, so let the kids do what they want.
@9GMXT4B6mos6MO
Wholeheartedly agree. Especially with the rampant lies about the “reversibility” of the hormones and drugs being injected into these children without their proper ability to consent
@8LC79N5Republican 8mos8MO
Top Disagreement
That studies have shown the vast majority of children will outgrow any dysphoria if they are not medically or socially transitioned, and that suicide rates remain at the same high rate pre and post transition, suggesting transitioning is of dubious benefit.
@9FBMTDMWomen’s Equality7mos7MO
While that may be true, if you do not give the child the choice, support, and help they need they may end up dead because of your carelessness.
@8LC79N5Republican7mos7MO
<p class="excludedBG purifiedBG">And they may end up dead if you do, that is the point of the original comment. In that case, it is better to do nothing. They can always transition as adults, but cannot undo many of the changes if transitioned young.
@9FWSFVN7mos7MO
They are making life changing irreversible decisions at a time when your going through both physical and mental changes in their life, once an adult you should be able to do what you want.
@9FT294M7mos7MO
If a person can't get a tattoo until 18 or drink alcohol at 21. Why at 16 can they surgically remove their own penis?
@VulcanMan6 7mos7MO
Because it can be incredibly beneficial for them, and also why not, why do you care..?
@ISIDEWITH3yrs3Y
No, and ban all gender transitioning treatments
@9FMVY8K7mos7MO
I believe people should be allowed to have treatments for transitioning no matter what because only they can know what gender they truly feel like or relate to.
@9FNMR4Y7mos7MO
The best counterargument is their body their choice. As long as they are not hurting you or hurting themselves they should be allowed to have access to legal methods. They shouldn't have to live with horrible mental health issues and harmful behavior due to not receiving gender-affirming care.
Agree or disagree, private medical decisions are private medical decisions. Treatment for our medical conditions is not open for debate or public input. If I have a medical condition, the treatment I receive should not be dependent on if others agree or disagree with the treatment.
@9GV49KB6mos6MO
There is no reason to ban transitioning when it is proven to help transgender people, the rate of people who transition without being transgender is very low, and it would go against their freedom and natural rights.
@ISIDEWITH3yrs3Y
Yes, but only for non-surgical treatments such as puberty blockers and hormone therapy
@ISIDEWITH3yrs3Y
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