Converation thread

Hm, I’m more of a fan of multilateral trade with planning by the area selling the product. Though, much of that economic thought process crosses into socialist aspects, I find it to just generally be a historically superior approach.

Bureaucracy happens far more often in the private sector already, that’s kinda just a given, because market is literally just micro-planning between businesses based on guessing most of the time. Bureaucrats already plan economic moves, they’re just not government ones. Private property rights in general weren’t meant for you, over 90% of the population won’t be affected in the slightest if it just suddenly disappeared. You’re against government getting involved in the bureaucracy that already exists to pursue national interests instead of business ones, which I find laughable considering business interests often run differently, or in complete opposition to the needs of the people and the nation at large.

The difference between government and business is that government has political power – the legal privilege of using force on innocent people – and private organisations do not. Businesses must use voluntary means to persuade you to buy their products – government can just create a law saying you MUST buy their services (via taxation) and then plunder your money if you refuse to fork it over, bind you hand and foot, and lock you in a cage for however long they please. Government is a criminal cartel controlled by some of the worst specimens of humanity who have been corrupted because of this evil and unnatural power. It is because it is so evil that I want to minimise political power by minimising government.

And the power of companies, businesses, and capitalism itself is far higher, while being far more discrete. Businesses grow overtime with little restraint from the outside, amassing a gigantic amount of indirect power. They may not be able to force you to buy a product, but they can kill the competition, ramp up prices overtime, and essentially make their product the only product available in that sector. Government merely assists in these companies getting this kind of power, but it’s also the only thing strong enough to defend against those forces in an industry. If capital interests…  Read more feel threatened, they will not try to weaken government, but to corrupt it instead, and make fascism more likely. Keeping government weak gives those interests a sense of safety, all while we have less safety when boom-bust-cycles hit, or when employee benefits are slashed. That government power being slashed only decreases the rate of profit further than what it already is, making capitalism’s lifetime much shorter since the rate of profit will only fall faster due to deregulation attempts. Directly speaking, government is an easy boogie man to hate, but it’s a tool, one piloted in this system largely by the rich, and therefore, reflects their interests in its actions. You may not know it, but whenever you hate on government itself, often the hate is more directed towards their interests.

No it's not, and I just told you precisely why. Businesses can't send people with guns to your house to cart you off to a cage for the rest of your life is you refuse to be plundered by them. But you chose to ignore that point, it seems ...

Yes, direct power, very scary and loud, I’m aware of it, but I recognize the power of indirect action in this kind of system. Companies don’t need to send you to prisons, there’s always other customers, and most of the big companies form into bigger and bigger ones that own more and more industry until avoiding them is literally impossible, meaning you’d have to starve or lack that entire service in order to avoid that company, essentially making your dependence on them absolute and immovable. If you try to break those companies up as one person, they’ll mercile…  Read moressly drown you in court fees, counter-responses in court, and often influence the judge by themselves. Money is an extremely powerful thing, and they possess a lot of it in some of the most cunning ways in history. It is not the most obvious thing that is the greatest danger, but the thing that is most capable of influencing you without you ever noticing it, hence why corporations and the system of capitalism itself is one of the most extreme dangerous forces out there, because it can simply buy up the tool that is government, turn the courts against you, ramp up its prices, and indirectly cause thousands of deaths with a single price change, and never be held accountable. If a business defaults for a bit or the stock market crashes, they’ll blame government or say it’s “just business” while millions suffer and thousands die from poverty without anyone noticing it. That’s the power these corporations hold, and it’s arsenal is more varied and complex than government can ever know, which is why I have greater hatred for corporations and capitalism than for government.

Allow me to introduce you to the concept of fascism. Fascism is when big business that would not in a free market have political power, use the criminal cartel we call "government" to plunder their fellow citizens and annihilate competition. How do they do this? Take for example California's "minimum wage" of $20. What that does is it outlaws all jobs under $20 an hour. It creates unemployment and poverty. But it also annihilates emerging small businesses, who can't afford to pay their employees such ludicrously high wages, and inflicts massive losses on medium sized businesses. But the Big Businesses know how to adjust to these circumstances with ease, finding ways to automate their operations and replace human labor with machine labor. In a free market, they would not do that without major scrutiny and outcry from the public that would inflict monetary losses on them. So big businesses are using this as an excuse to fire people, especially white Christian males, Read moreand also an excuse to wipe out free market competition. They have bribed the law-makers of California into doing this, and the working class goes along, thinking it's helping them, but not realising it's a fascist measure designed to use government to harm the struggling. Businesses also do this through Corporate Welfare, or government subsidies, that allow them to use taxation to plunder the working class's money to fund their unsustainable schemes that would be impossible in a free market. But by far the most nefarious bastion of fascism and tool of the rich elites (whom you as a socialist disdain, am I right?) is the Federal Reserve. Using the secret tax of inflation, the politically-connected elites get to use the fiat money (all fiat paper money is EVIL) before it looses any value, plundering the wealth of the poor and middle class in order to gain more resources that they'd have to work for in a free market. Government's not something that can stand in the way of big business exploitation, government is the tool that allows for big business exploitation. History is littered with similar examples, which I will be happy to share if you like.

Fascism is about the merger of corporate and state power into monopolized industries that were supposedly to be controlled by government (in their extremely short and weak theory), but instead enable one another and turn the powers of economic and political imperialism jnwards on their own society, creating what is essentially capitalism in decay. Cronyism is a step towards that process, but the destruction of cronyism does nothing to address the innate problems of capitalism itself choosing to move towards this cronyism. We would have to fight back against cronyism using government if we don…  Read more’t wish for it to come back into it in the first place, as reversing cronyism will only last for a short period no matter how much collective force is used against them by consumers, as monopolies are far easier to make happen under both crony and libertarian capitalist systems. Reducing restrictions and taxes has frequently allowed natural or near monopolies to occur, allowing a high enough concentration of wealth that only the government can fix tend mess they will cause, which will lead to cronyism unless we fight extremely hard in a revolutionary attempt to overthrow the capitalist class, then somehow manage to keep capitalism on a leash without government. There’s not any viable way to make that work, and attempts to keep capitalism on a leash often translate to either temporary social democracy, or fascism. Government mandate of certain economic policies is not fascism, that is an aspect of Keynesian philosophy, a wide-reaching economic philosophy which we’ve adhered to for decades before without falling close to fascism. The California minimum wage has shown to be a necessity, as simply freeing the market in that area has shown extremely poor returns due to its many examples, such as the rental housing market, which now is one of the main sources of their housing crisis in the first place. Businesses have no reason to fire white male christians, more often than not, minorities are thrown out unless affirmative action laws are in place. What politicians in blue states are attempting to do is to give capitalism a face using social democracy, often being one of the last desperate measures that capitalism takes before its collapse, but these businesses are intentionally gunking it up to make social democracy look bad, while politicians in California are just generally bad at dealing with the right issues already, creating a dumpster fire that cannot be fixed by an increase in democratic, nor Republican control, as the solutions would require a careful Keynesian but market- based approach that no party is willing to take.

A truly Keynesian approach would actually be *MORE* conservative than what we have now – John Maynard Keynes was by today's standards a moderate conservative, and in his works advocating for shrinking the government debt by cutting spending on unnecessary things, though he did support the Public Works Jobs Creation Fallacy and other economic absurdities. Keynesian Economics, Monetarist Economics, and Marxist Economics have all been tried and found lacking. The only thing that we've never tried is Austrian Economics, which can account for every depression and recession in Ameri…  Read morecan History. One of the its founders, Ludwig Von Mises, predicted the Great Depression, unlike his British fellow-economist John Maynard Keynes. Keynes's theories swept the Western World because they were published in English, but because Mises did not speak English, no one paid heed to his warnings until they were sufficiently translated by which time it was too late.